EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

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EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

BSHGTO
Bought a new to EF4500ISE that has the auto choke this unit starts and runs fine most of the time when camping. On occasion it refuses to start when engine is cold or hot (plenty of gas and oil, less than 100 hours on plug turns over quickly) when I pull the plug it`s obviously flooding itself, any one have any ideas?Of course the dealer can`t find anything wrong because it`s intermittent and I`m tired of running 2 hours to the dealer. Considering the units cost, not a happy camper.
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

CycleRob
Intermittent problems are the worst kind!!
There are a few easy shots (compared to a 2hr ride) you can make:

--Reread the owner's manual that explains the starting AND shutdown procedures. They can be critical for properly positioning the choke butterfly for the next startup.

--A low battery may cause the malfunction, but that conflicts with you saying it "turns over quickly". To eliminate it from contention, connect the generator battery with jumper cables to your car/truck (not running!) every time you start the genny. It may take 10--15 starts or more per day for several days to show you results. In that time period, if it floods again and fails to start, it's not the battery.

--There is a THERMO UNIT (p/n 1P5-83591-00-00) that senses the engine temperature, part #48 top-center in the pic below. Being near new, it is unlikely but still possible it is intermittently malfunctioning. The Yamaha tech should have Ohmmeter tested it to see if it is in spec for different temperatures. Check to see it is connected -or- better yet, test it yourself IF you can get the specs from Yamaha. The data should be specified in the EF4500ISE service manual.



Talent, On Loan, From God  --Rush Limbaugh--
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

jefgreen
I'm curious if the original poster found a solution....

I picked up an EF4500ise the other week, started with a lot of cranking but eventually would run. Now it wont start at all. I pulled the air cleaner and the choke was open, once closed by hand the generator fires, runs normally and makes power.

I found the Theory of Operation and Troubleshooting manual and did some investigation. The choke servo motor ohms out correctly as spec'd in the manual. In addition I believe I located the temp sensor on the head, and that had a resistance of 5260 ohms at room temp, it should have been about 18-300 ohms if I recall correctly. I put a 350 ohm load onto the harness to simulate a cold start condition and the choke still wouldn't close even while the engine cranks.

There are two posts in this forum about EF4500ise choke problems, any one successfully troubleshot them?

Jeff
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

jefgreen
The auto choke and the auto throttle use the same Mitsubishi MP24S 12VDC stepper motor, so I swapped them. No change, choke still won't close but throttle seems fine and unit still produces power.

From reviewing the wiring diagram, the Control Unit sends the signal to the stepper motors, so short of swapping in a new control unit @$1200, I'm not sure how to proceed.

Jeff
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

jefgreen
I put a 10amp load on it and it died. In addition to the auto choke, the auto throttle isn't operating either.  Brought it to dealer and they confirmed the control board is toast. Their price is $1795, they can discount it by 10%.

Essentially not financially viable to fix it. Fudge.

Jeff
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

ron_jeremy
This post was updated on .
I'm experiencing the same issue with our EF4500ISE. Unit has about 4,100 hours on it and still runs like a top. The only issue we have is starting it after a period of non-use. It doesn't matter if it's cold or warm, it takes about 15 seconds of fast cranking before it fires. Once started, we can turn it off and restart it again without issue. However, starting it again for the first time the next day is always a problem.

I have put in a new plug and clean air filter -- still no use.

From reading this thread I'm guessing it's the control box that controls the choke. Is there any way to manually activate the choke on this unit? I'm open to any suggestions because a new control box is $2500 here in Canada. Can the control unit be fixed?

@jefgreen Do you know where to find the choke servo motor and the ohms spec for testing the choke servo?
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

jefgreen
Hi,

I ended up bringing my unit to a dealer and they confirmed the control box was the problem. I had no choke or auto throttle. $1800 for a new one. 

The control unit can't be repair supposedly due to the amount of epoxy. My unit will still run and make electricity so plan on replacing electric carb with a mechanical carb with separate choke and throttle. It's an inverter unit and I need the clean power. 

It's my first and last Yamaha. Honda has cheaper control modules. 

Choke can be manipulated with a cable or rod to manually pull. Not clean but doable. I've pulled my cover off and done it by hand. My unit was bought used with 300 hours. Suspect prior owner knew it had issues as his name is on control unit in black magic marker. 

Hole this helps. 

Jeff

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 15, 2017, at 7:44 PM, ron_jeremy [via Yamaha Generator Fan Club] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm experiencing the same issue with our EF4500ISE. Unit has about 4,100 hours on it and still runs like a top. The only issue we have is starting it after a period of non-use. It doesn't matter if it's cold or warm, it takes about 15 seconds of fast cranking before it fires. Once started, we can turn it off and restart it without issue. However, starting it again for the first time the next day is always a problem.

I have put in a new plug and clean air filter -- still no use.

From reading this thread I'm guessing it's the control box that controls the choke. Is there any way to manually activate the choke on this unit? I'm open to any suggestions because a new control box is $2500 here in Canada. Can the control unit be fixed?


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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

ron_jeremy
Hi @jefgreen,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

This is our first Yamaha after going through 2 Honda's that simply did not last very long at all; one unit was nothing but constant problems, but that was years ago -- maybe Honda's are better today.

I can't speak for the cost of a Honda control box, but I did find a Yamaha unit for $1272 USD (about $1600 CAD) at Yamaha Parts Warehouse:

http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/5003a9e8f8700212fc83a772/control-box

I might pull the trigger on this control box. Do you think the generator has lots of life left in it if it already has over 4,000 hours?

On another note, I removed the side cover (air filter) and front cover (control panel), and can see the carb but don't know what I'm looking for to find the choke. Can you help with that?

Also, is the process of converting to a mechanical carb as simple as removing the existing carb and dropping in the replacement?
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

jefgreen
Hi Ron,

I'm impressed with the 4000 hours, my lawn mower doesn't have that many hours and it's 16 years old. So you're having much better reliability than I can compare to. 

The carb swap is theoretical at this point. It would require a non electronic carb from a similar sized engine and then installing a manual choke and throttle cable. Not sure about bolt pattern either for carb. 

I paid $2000 for my unit, I can't justify another $1300 for a control box when I can buy a new Honda 2800w for $1000. My need is standby power, might see 5-10 hours a year.

The choke is a tiny black lever under a servo motor closest to the air cleaner side of carb. I don't think the air cleaner has to come off to move it but it would help with the visual the first time.

Jeff
Sent from my iPad

On Jul 19, 2017, at 5:06 PM, ron_jeremy [via Yamaha Generator Fan Club] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi @jefgreen,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

This is our first Yamaha after going through 2 Honda's that simply did not last very long at all; one unit was nothing but constant problems, but that was years ago -- maybe Honda's are better today.

I can't speak for the cost of a Honda control box, but I did find a Yamaha unit for $1272 USD (about $1600 CAD) at Yamaha Parts Warehouse:

http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/5003a9e8f8700212fc83a772/control-box

I might pull the trigger on this control box. Do you think the generator has lots of life left in it if it already has over 4,000 hours?

On another note, I removed the side cover (air filter) and front cover (control panel), and can see the carb but don't know what I'm looking for to find the choke. Can you help with that?

Also, is the process of converting to a mechanical carb as simple as removing the existing carb and dropping in the replacement?


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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

ron_jeremy
I live off-grid, and use the genset to charge a large battery bank. It runs a lot.

I'll pull the covers off again to take a closer look for the choke lever.

Thanks again.
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

jefgreen
I need emergency backup power only, and last few years I haven't needed it at all. Worst case was 13 days but it wasn't 24 hrs/day either. I could live with a new Honda 2800 inverter for $1000 so I may sell this unit for parts. Finding I have less patience and interest for a project.

Good to hear your experience and longevity is much better than mine.

Jeff

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 19, 2017, at 6:00 PM, ron_jeremy [via Yamaha Generator Fan Club] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I live off-grid, and use the genset to charge a large battery bank. It runs a lot.

I'll pull the covers off again to take a closer look for the choke lever.

Thanks again.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Re: EF4500ISE auto choke problem?

jefgreen
In reply to this post by ron_jeremy
Just reread your message. 

The choke is servomechanism activated. Both throttle and choke. Should have black caps covering the servos on top of carb. 2 or 3 small gauge wires. Just below the servo is the actual choke and throttle arm, maybe 3/4" long. 

Jeff

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 19, 2017, at 6:00 PM, ron_jeremy [via Yamaha Generator Fan Club] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I live off-grid, and use the genset to charge a large battery bank. It runs a lot.

I'll pull the covers off again to take a closer look for the choke lever.

Thanks again.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://yamaha-generator-fan-club.10967.n7.nabble.com/EF4500ISE-auto-choke-problem-tp118p1610.html
To unsubscribe from EF4500ISE auto choke problem?, click here.
NAML